how many years? we've gone a dozen years without a category 3 or 4 hurricane. they came in rapid succession in 2003, 2004 -- >> there's a reason for that. >> -- 2005. >> yeah. >> and then absolutely nothing until a couple of weeks ago, so -- >> all right, we'll be watching. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. hi, there. i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, breaking news on the weather front, hurricane irma now a category 5 storm, looking at places like puerto rico and haiti. and a big week ahead in washington. a decision on the d.r.e.a.m.ers, funding the harvey recovery, and what to watch on north korea. >> remember the old line in the sand? they have now drawn a line in the ocean. if any missile threatens our territory in guam, hawaii, or the west coast of the united states, we're going to act. >> the big question affecting so many texans, how to pay for harvey. a vote set for tomorrow, but the

president wants it tied to raising the debt ceiling. >> if congress proepts the money but i don't have the ability to borrow more money and pay for it, we're not going to be able to get that money to the state. and we expect a decision this morning on what to do about the d.r.e.a.m.ers, the people brought here illegally by their parents, protected by an obama-era rule that president trump promised to end. >> it's tough. it really is. yesterday i did nothing but cry with everyone around me, but you kind of have to. >> today's a new day. >> yeah. >> no joke, big week, beginning with that jam-packed agenda in d.c. the president himself calling it a big week. and this week it's not only his legacy that's going to be tested on issues like the d.r.e.a.m.ers program and north korea, but congress, they're certainly about to get tested, too, and we have the best team in the business here to break it down. i want to start with nbc's kristen welker live at the white house. kristen, now we are hearing that this d.r.e.a.m.ers program announcement is going to come at 11:00, but it won't be by

president trump. it's going to be jeff sessions. now, i guess in theory, the ideology of ending the d.r.e.a.m.ers program suits with what jeff sessions' beliefs are, but why wouldn't the president himself speak? >> reporter: great question, steph. i think the president's trying to distance himself from what he knows is going to be highly controversial and from a subject that he has been internally deeply divided on. this administration has been deeply divided. this is what we expect from the attorney general later today. he's going to announce that the president has decided to end the daca program. that is, of course, the obama-era executive order which protects immigrants who were brought here illegally as children but who are now working and trying to become educated. however, there's going to be a big caveat. sessions is going to announce a six-month delay, effectively allowing for a legislative solution. now, that's going to be tough, because republicans are deeply divided over this. obviously, you had democrats and immigration advocates coming out and saying that this unfairly

punishes those who were brought here as children, but you have a number of people on the far right saying, bottom line is, the president should end daca right now. it violates the rule of law. i think that's what you're going to hear from the attorney general later today. but more establishment republicans want to come up with a solution, steph. they want to come up with some type of compromise. this was president trump moments ago, who took to twitter, who laid out the stakes. he said, "congress, get ready to do your job -- daca!" so, that tells you the direction that this is headed on. steph, i've been talking to sources on capitol hill and here in the white house, and they say they may be able to find some type of a compromise measure that would provide funding for that border wall, along with a fix to daca, but there is no doubt the challenges are incredibly steep, steph. >> my goodness, this is complicated. we'll take you to capitol hill where garrett is. garrett, congress is back and they've got work to do. first big thing on their plate, helping out the victims of

hurricane harvey, and the second one is raising the debt ceiling, and it sounded like from steve mnuchin from the sunday shows, they're going to weave these two together. >> reporter: well, the white house would very much like to tie these two things together, although at the end of the day, it won't be their decision. they're probably going to have to accept whatever deal that congress can come up with. but for the white house, they like this idea of tying these two things together because you can attach the unpopular debt ceiling lift to the very popular aid for hurricane harvey, and then there's also just the practical measure here of, you know, passing a harvey aid package is essentially authorizing the government to put that money on their credit card, and they need to make sure that credit card doesn't go over its limit to actually spend the money. but treasury secretary laid some of this out over the weekend. take a listen. >> the president and i believe that it should be tied to the harvey funding. without raising the debt limit, i'm not comfortable that we will get the money that we need this month to texas to rebuild. >> reporter: in talking to sources at the white house and on the hill over the weekend,

one way this could be done, and i emphasize could because really nothing is settled on this yet until congress gets back and gets their hands dirty on it, would be for the house to pass the harvey aid first, send it to the senate, the senate then attach the debt ceiling lift to that bill and send it back, and essentially, then dare the house to reject this while people are looking at pictures of america's fourth largest city still flooded and watching another hurricane coming down the pike that would be very difficult for those who might want to fight the debt ceiling increase to do so under those circumstances politically, stephanie. >> all right, debt ceiling, d.r.e.a.m.ers, hurricane harvey, and we haven't even talked about north korea, the one issue that could overshadow all of this. north korean ambassador telling the u.n. today that its recent test of a hydrogen bomb will be followed with more tests if the united states continues to pressure its government. at the same time, south korea is carrying out live-fire exercises for a second day as global leaders are bracing for whatever

comes next. nbc's keir simmons is in russia, where vladimir putin is reacting for the first time. keir, give us an update. >> reporter: hey, stephanie, good morning. evening here in russia's far east on the border between russia and north korea along the coast in that direction. and russia's president, vladimir putin, issuing a thinly veiled rebuke of president trump, saying what he calls the hysteria surrounding north korea is senseless and could lead to a global catastrophe. many other developments overnight and through recent days. south korea having their payload limit lifted on its missiles, in agreement with president trump. president trump in a phone call with the president of south korea, president moon, appearing to agree to the potential for selling more sophisticated weapons to south korea. meanwhile, reporting that north korea may be preparing for another missile test. all of that incremental, very important in the big picture,

but i think vladimir putin's intervention is particularly significant. once again, the russian president putting himself at the center of an international crisis. he has a lot to gain and a lot to lose. tomorrow, he will host a conference here , and attending will be president abe of japan, president moon from south korea and a delegation from north korea. the president of russia says he wants to see negotiations. the issue, stephanie, is that there is such a gulf between the u.s. and its allies and north korea and its allies. stephanie? >> extraordinary. north korea, putin, d.r.e.a.m.ers, irma, harvey, tax reform coming and more. retired army four-star general wesley clark, also a senior fellow at the ucla center. and two msnbc analysts, republican strategist rick tyler

and "daily news" columnist mike lupica, who i have to point out, two nights ago i walked into my son's room to find he's reading michael lupica's "the comeback kid." i won't mention this may have been purchased at a garage sale, but still, it's being read in my home and i'm thrilled about it. all right, we have the start -- i can't even believe north korea was the third story of the day. this matters. we have to focus on this, because now that there are more tests on the way, nikki haley's weighing in, speaking specifically about kim jong-un yesterday. >> his abusive use of missiles and his nuclear threats show that he is begging for war. war is never something the united states wants. we don't want it now. but our country's patience is not unlimited. >> okay, general, i have to start with you. at what point, what is it, where is the red line, in your opinion, that would demand a military response? because whether we're talking general mattis or nikki haley, they are talking tough.

>> first thing i think we need to do is we're really playing into kim's hands. the more we escalate the rhetoric of the crisis, the more we say that along with vladimir putin this is going to be a global catastrophe, that's what north korea wants us to do. they're pushing the panic button on us. we shouldn't play their game. as far as a red line is concerned, look, if they ever attacked us, they would be totally destroyed. they know it. secretary mattis has made this more than perfectly clear. but continued rhetoric back and forth doesn't serve our purposes. this is a ratcheting up game. it's right on the chinese, and especially on the russian game plan, which is force the negotiations and say to the united states, well, if you don't like all this pressure, you can just stop your exercises and then leave. so, in other words, abandon our position in northeast asia and

leave that part of the world to russia and china. that's the long-term game plan. north korea's the barking dog to scare us and make us concede this. so, we have to show resolution here and we have to not play their game. can we talk with north korea? certainly. but it's their problem, not our problem. they're the country that's isolated. >> but general -- >> we're not. >> do we have enough information? it stheemz teems the speed and capability of north korea's nuclear program continues to surprise us. we don't actually know that much about kim jong-un, so how do you plan for an enemy like this? >> well, i think what you have to do with north korea is you have to reassure south korea. south korea is the center of gravity of the crisis. if the south korean public believes in the united states' ability to defend and protect south korea, north korea can spend all the money it wants on missiles and rockets, and it

won't get anywhere. if the united states crumbles and lets the south korean public fear that the united states may negotiate away their protection, then the ediface of deterrence that we've built up for years on the korean peninsula will disappear. so, it's really about south korea. so, let's stand firm, let's be resolute. let's not get panicked and pushed by north korea and vladimir putin. >> all right, i want to shift topics. we've got to talk about d.r.e.a.m.ers. rick, this morning at 11:00 a.m., jeff sessions is going to be making a statement. why jeff sessions and not the president? what's the strategy here? >> because the president doesn't want to own this. remember, he hasn't ended daca, right? he's delayed it for six months. he's given the congress an opportunity to fix this. some might argue that there are several court cases out there which they may lose on daca with the states. the states have sued the federal -- several states have sued the federal government, and daca may not survive that process. now the courts may look at it

and say, look, he has ended the program, so is it not moot, so put off that decision. but he's just delayed the inevitable. to do this right now is the worst thing, because you just mentioned all the things at the beginning of the show that they're dealing with, and you didn't mention russia. and now we're going to deal with daca, too. it's the worst possible time. he probably should have done nothing, and if he wanted to actually get rid of daca, do something like this in the future. bottom line, i think in a sense, the president's right. congress has advocated the responsibility to fix immigration and give us a rational immigration system and keep these people, which is put these people in the position they're? >> what do you think? a lot of republican leaders have come out and said they don't want the program to go away. >> first thing i would like somebody to do is ask this president, what do you think about it? where do you line up on this? we know he said -- >> he lines up with -- >> he said he was going to wipe it out. i'm sorry, rick, abandoning this program is shameful. it makes you say to yourself, what kind of country are we right now? and this isn't a congressional

problem, it's not a presidential problem, this is an american problem. who are these kids threatening in this country? all the d.r.e.a.m.ers down in houston over the weekend, who were they threatening? what kind of country are we going to be if we turn our backs on them legislatively, congressionally -- >> i agree. >> presley. >> most d.r.e.a.m.ers come here when they're 6 years old. >> that's right. >> they cannot have a criminal report. chris poev yack can say all day long they're gang bangers. they're not. 97% of them are employed. >> in fact, in houston, you will quickly see a skills gap because there will not be the tradesmen to fix these houses unless you hire people. because 500,000 people in houston today are not here legally. and those are the very people who were at the home depot this morning looking for work to start to repair houston. i agree with everything mike says. the problem is, if you take daca away, and this is a different decision, the president shouldn't have to unilaterally declare, make law. that's not the way it is, because if this were a different circumstance, mike, you don't want the president to be able to

do this. and if the courts reaffirmed that power, and particularly with donald trump, you don't want the president in that power. >> doesn't this affect, though, people's trust in the government? >> yes. >> the obama administration said come out from the shadows, so people did. >> yes. >> if now the rug is pulled out from under them, what does this do to people's trust in the government? >> it's an abandonment of what our values are supposed to be. when i see a slow thinker like chris coback come on this show and suggest that all d.r.e.a.m.ers are gang bangers or gang bangers in waiting, guess what, if somebody has to stay, let the d.r.e.a.m.ers stay and let guys like him go. >> guess what, this puts president trump in a position where he's now adding another thing to congress' list. get done tax reform, get done health care, fix the d.r.e.a.m.ers program, and if they don't, it helps the narrative, it's not me, it's the republican congress. we have to turn and talk about harvey, irma. irma is now a category 5 storm,

barreling towards the caribbean and possibly florida's east coast. hurricane hunters flew into the storm for a closer look. i want you to look at this image. they're flying right into the eye. you can barely see. for more on irma's path, i want to check in with nbc news meteorologist steve sosnic. places like puerto rico, already in economic distress. the governor says they've set $15 million aside, which is nothing. >> right. >> and haiti, one of the poorest countries in the western hemisphere. i want to say the second poorest. they cannot afford to get hit like this. they're still getting over the previous one. >> this is a storm that sets people back decades, so this is why we really need to keep a careful eye. we're hoping that over the next couple of hours to later on today, the storm starts to make a northward jog. that would spare the islands, the northern fringe of that eye wall, which is the strongest part of this storm. but again, this is an hour-by-hour situation.

that storm has not showed any signs recently of moving up to the north. so, here's a look at the storm right now. category 5. winds 175 miles per hour. strongest hurricane out in the atlantic since felix back in 2007. so, that shows you the intensity that we're dealing with here. and unfortunately, there's not a whole lot to disrupt this storm. the storm system keeps moving towards the west. by wednesday at 2:00 in the morning, so tomorrow morning, early in the morning, places like antigua, barbuda, towards angula will be seeing hurricane-force conditions, possibly destructive hurricane-force conditions, and then the northern portions of puerto rico. then as we work our way through the timeline into thursday, that's when areas of northern portions of the hispaniola will be affected by, again, potentially a catastrophic hurricane. and then all eyes are set on the southeast coast. what happens with florida? the only saving grace would be if this storm moves across northern cuba to weaken a little bit, but i don't see that

solution as of now, steph. >> we are watching this hour by hour. category 5. all right, we're going to take a little break. next, we're going to go there live to houston, where d.r.e.a.m.ers are helping hurricane harvey recovery. i'm going to say that again, d.r.e.a.m.ers, the people whose future in this country is now at risk, they are there conducting rescue efforts. those are great americans. kevin, meet your father. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin trusted advice for life. kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you. i'm proud to make dog chow in (vodavenport, iowa.an. dog chow's been a part of my family's life for over 40 years. my grandfather made it and now i'm making it. as a micro-biologist i ensure that dog chow leads with

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welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. in about 90 minutes from now, we

are expecting to learn what action president trump plans to take on the d.r.e.a.m.ers program. two sources tell nbc news he is leaning towards ending it, much to the dismay of business leaders who say the united states' economy would take a multibillion-dollar hit. let's go through the numbers. the pro immigration reform group fwd.us, co-founded by mark zuckerberg, says canceling the program would mean roughly 30,000 d.r.e.a.m.ers a month would lose their work permits as their status expires. and the loss of all those jobs would reduce the u.s. gdp by $433 billion with a "b" over the next ten years. the center for american progress says the impact would be felt across the country. the state that would get hit the hardest, california, with an annual gdp lost of more than $11.3 billion. next is texas with more than $6 billion in losses. and don't forget, all that hurricane harvey relief that we need there followed by illinois,

new jersey, and florida. my next guest has been covering the d.r.e.a.m.ers extensively. dara lind is a senior reporter at fox.com. dara, first, tell me what a d.r.e.a.m.er looks like. last week, head of the voter fraud commission, chris coback, tried to tell me they were gang bangers who hadn't been prosecuted for their hard crimes yet, but i know that's not the case. >> right. the average daca recipient who's applied for and gotten protection under this program, came to the united states at 6 years old, average age now 25, 26. so they've been in the u.s. for 20 years. to qualify for protection, they have to have no or very little of a criminal record, you know, a couple minor misdemeanors at most, have to either have a high school diploma or a ged or currently be enrolled. 91% of current daca recipients are employed right now. when you take it to 25 and older, it's 93%. so, overwhelmingly, they're employed, students full time, or they're actually doing both, often. and the real lesson of the

program over the last five years has been that their wages, because they've been coming out of the underground economy or out of a situation where they couldn't get a higher degree because they didn't think that they could work legally out of it, have increased, and they now, for those 25 and older, wages have increased 84% since they came under the protections of the daca program. so when we talk about the threat of ending it, that's the kind of forward motion that might get rolled back. >> then as a nation of immigrants aren't these the exact kind of immigrants we want? i want to talk about mark zuckerberg, vara and other business leaders urging president trump to keep the d.r.e.a.m.ers program. president trump has touted himself the pro business leader over and over, but clearly, ending the d.r.e.a.m.ers program would be the opposite of what the business community wants. why would he be doing this, for his base? we know his base is sticking with him, win, lose or draw. >> so you know, the business leaders aren't just acting out

of their ideology or out of their belief that immigrants are good. 72% of the top 25 fortune 500 companies employ daca recipients, but they don't necessarily know that that's who they're employing because the work permit doesn't necessarily look any different. so if we're looking at a gradual phase-out of the daca program or a severe cutoff, in either of those situations, they might be having people who are employed legally one day and employed illegally the next, which is the kind of uncertainty that businesses don't particularly want to deal with. that's not necessarily something that the president has been overly concerned with. he tends to revel in uncertainty. but it's the kind of thing that a large employer like mark zuckerberg or, you know, tim cook at apple would be very concerned with. >> president trump himself has hired many, many immigrants over the years. he married two immigrants. he's the son of an immigrant. so, clearly, this country is built on immigrants. all right, dara, thank you so much. amazing work. you've got to follow her

covering d.r.e.a.m.ers. this woman knows her stuff. and i want to turn now to marianna attendanceo. she's been talking with d.r.e.a.m.ers in houston who have also been dealing with the devastating aftermath of hurricane harvey. marianna, what are the d.r.e.a.m.ers there telling you, because just before the hurricane hit, i spoke with the governor and he said if you are undocumented, don't worry about it, come, seek shelter, we will protect you. well, that was before the storm. >> reporter: that's what the mayor of houston also said, stephanie, but i just spoke to a d.r.e.a.m.er whose house flooded. in fact, i'm standing in front of her flooded home right now, and she tells me that her and her undocumented family were afraid to seek help and haven't really dared to do it because of their immigration status. she also told me that d.r.e.a.m.ers in houston, around 70,000 of them, are having to deal with what she called two storms, not only dealing with the aftermath of harvey and these destroyed homes, but also this potentially life-changing decision on daca.

let's listen to what she told me just a couple minutes ago. >> we've got to deal with two big things in our personal life. i mean, we lost everything, and now we have to worry about what's going to be our future, what's going to happen next. they brought me when i was 7 years old, so i couldn't decide for myself. and now i'm here, and i just want the best for my family. >> reporter: that young d.r.e.a.m.er, stephanie, she helped in the harvey relief efforts, like so many d.r.e.a.m.ers did. and in fact, one d.r.e.a.m.er, 31-year-old daca recipient alonzo guillen, he lost his life trying to save harvey victims when his boat capsized last week. i spoke to his family last night, and this is what his cousin told me about alonzo's memory. "we want him to be remembered as a hero, someone who liked helping people. alonzo," he said, "he represents what d.r.e.a.m.ers are made of, and i would like people to see

us in alonzo and not like president trump has portrayed us, as criminals." stephanie? >> alonzo lost his life trying to save other victims of hurricane harvey. mariana, thank you so much. we have to take a break. when we return, we're just four minutes away from the markets opening after a long weekend. traders are back in the hot seat. the question is, how is wall street going to react not just to the d.r.e.a.m.ers program being ended, but the threat of north korea and a possible nuclear test? opening bell moments away. let's see what the street has to say. your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory.

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welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. you're watching msnbc. it is time for your "morning primer," everything you need to know to start your day. in about 90 minutes, attorney general jeff sessions is expected to announce the administration's plan to end the deferred action for childhood arrivals, better known as the d.r.e.a.m.ers program. this comes hours before president trump huddles with his economic team, trying to come up with a plan to rewrite the tax code. the house and senate will gavel back into session this afternoon. plans have already been announced for the house to vote on a $7 billion harvey aid bill. and a state of emergency has been declared in florida and

puerto rico under a hurricane warning as irma makes her way to the east coast. the massive storm has been upgraded to a category 5. that's the highest storm with winds hitting up to 175 miles per hour. and the west coast is dealing with its own state of emergency as record-setting heat has fueled 60 major wildfires near los angeles. 1,400 people have already had to evacuate. and my home state, not good news. the federal corruption trial of new jersey senator bob menendez begins tomorrow. prosecutors say menendez used his position to lobby on behalf of the interests of a florida doctor in exchange for expensive gifts and trips abroad. and after a long weekend, we are getting our first look at how the u.s. markets are reacting after north korea claimed to launch its sixth nuclear test. cnbc's dom chu joins me now. dom, the market's opening. i just read big cnbc news,

billion dollar buyer tillman if tia buying the houston rockets. that's a big green day for cnbc, but tell me, what is going to happen in the markets. or when we hear about north korea getting closer and closer to nuclear, why don't we get a bigger market reaction? >> you know, it's this desen desensitivity that we've been talking about for the better part of a year or two at this point, stephanie, the whole idea that as shocks happen in the marketplace, traders are largely shrugging them off, and today is no different. you'd think with north korea conducting its sixth nuclear test, and by many experts' accounts, the most powerful nuclear test they've ever done, that markets would be a little bit more shaken. but as you can see here, the dow is only down by about 70, maybe 75 points to start the day off. so there's no real sense of panic out there. however, this continuing theme of traders and investors really looking for any small dip in the market to buy has still been playing out in today's session. i would say, though, that where it is playing out more dramatically is in places like safety markets, right? people buy u.s. government bonds when they think the world might

be heading for a disaster. they're doing that again today. and also in gold prices. those are probably the two places, stephanie, where you're seeing the most kind of impact in what's happening today. >> all right. then, if the president's tweeting or rhetoric turns him into the boy who cried wolf as far as the market goes, what does the market care about? are they concerned about the debt ceiling, tax reform? is there anything they're focused on right now? because come september, people are back with their pencils sharpened. >> so, stephanie, you hit on two of the things that traders are probably the most concerned with. among all the traders i speak to on a regular basis, the two things that come up at least more regularly, most recently these days, the debt ceiling, because it's getting so close, but tax reform is so key for a lot of people on wall street because they really believe that could be the next catalyst, whether it be a big market move higher or a real pullback lower, if tax reform doesn't get done. those are the things that traders care about the most right now. i would also say that over the past three weeks, everyone's been focused on two important things, that is, north korea and hurricane harvey.

unfortunately, they're still fixated on the same kinds of things. you've got north korea again, and this time it's hurricane irma. if things in hurricane irma start to move towards the gulf of mexico again just as houston and parts of louisiana are trying to rebuild and dig out from under that hurricane harvey disaster, then that could be a real, real issue for a lot of places out there, and that's the reason why a lot of energy traders especially are keeping a close eye on what's happening with the path of hurricane irma. if it does head towards the gulf, it could be a big, big deal in a bad way for what's happening with the energy side of things, oil and gas. >> and that's the kind of news we don't want. dom chu, thank you so much. we're going to take a break. we're going to stay on tax reform, though, because the president is just hours away from sitting down with his big six tax reform group. who are they and what is at stake? how will their meeting hit your pocketbook? talk of steve bannon weighing in these days, other talk that gary cohn could be out. mom, i just saved a lot of money on my car insurance by switching to geico. i should take a closer look at geico...

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welcome back. time for "money, power, politics." president trump taking a big step forward on his goal of tax reform today. in just a few hours, he'll be meeting with the so-called big six. the group includes key members of congress and his administration who are currently negotiating a plan to rewrite the tax code. the big six released a statement last month, underscoring their commitment to rewriting the tax code. joining me now is an economist with the american enterprise institute. allen, first off, "the new york times" is saying steve bannon

meeting with freedom caucus members, gary cohn, who the market, who ceos like, he's out because trump's mad at him over his charlottesville comments. who is at the table and what are they actually serving? >> well, so, i think there's a lot of uncertainty as to where things really stand. so far, all we've really seen are some vague statements of principle with the repeated promise that the details will be worked out later. and we've actually seen that timetable pushed steadily backward. i mean, we should look back and think that early in the year, the administration was talking about actually having a bill signed into law by august, which obviously didn't happen. so, i think at this point, they're trying, hopefully, to resolve some of the big issues, which is like will this be deficit-neutral or will it be a tax cut that adds to the deficit? will it be temporary or will it be permanent? what kind of changes will be made on the individual side? how low will the corporate tax rate go? i mean, those big issues have to be resolved first. of course, once those are

resolved, there's still a whole host of details that would have to be worked out. >> then that gives me health care deja vu. yep, we're going to get it done. it's the big things, and then we didn't. and i want to talk about some things we have heard, because politico is reporting this idea that's quietly being discussed, to tax the money employees designate to 401(k) plans up front. how and why would that be a good idea? >> well, i don't know that it would be a good idea, but we should look first at why they might want to do that. that's really a budget gimmick. so, the idea is that you would still get a tax break if you are -- >> once again, a gimmick. >> yes, a budget gimmick. you would still get a tax break on the retirement saving, but the break would be at the back end instead of the front end. so, the idea is to make these things work like roth i.r.a.s, where you put the money in without getting any tax deduction up front, but then when you take the money out, it's tax-free. the reason they want to do that, of course, is because it means that the revenue loss from that

tax break will show up decades down the road when people are taking money out, rather than today when they're putting money in. and since congress lives and dies based on ten-year budget numbers, any cost that you can put out further than ten years no longer counts. >> all right, well, trickle down -- >> so, the budget gimmick just -- >> trickle-down economics for some seems to make sense, but for most, it doesn't. and the big six reportedly debating how a minimum tax on corporate earnings abroad might work. how do you see that happening? >> well, that tax is kind of a compromise between where you tax the overseas earnings of an american company the same as domestic earnings on the one hand and where you don't tax them at all on the other. so, the idea is that if the money is being earned in a really low-tax jurisdiction or being booked there, shall we say, then there would be some minimum tax that would apply in the united states. this notion of how to tax the overseas earnings is really one of the other contentious issues that have to be worked out.

let me just put in a note, though, that trying to tax the overseas earnings of american chartered companies is kind of self-defeating in the long run, given that you can earn overseas money through foreign chartered corporations, and then there's no u.s. tax due. so, that's i think an issue that has to be kept in mind. >> as president trump would say, it's complicated. and i want to point out, though we do have a high corporate tax rate, i can't think of a company that actually pays that rate. all right, thank you so much for joining, alan. i appreciate it. >> thank you, stephanie. coming up next, reports of president trump's close confidante and right-hand man is leaving the white house. why this trump departure might be the most crushing to the president. this is his buddy. and we have got to stay focused on hurricane harvey, now a category 5 storm with much of the caribbean under hurricane warning. excuse me, hurricane irma. and south florida in its path. places like haiti, who cannot afford a hit like this. ♪ can i get some help.

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what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it?

yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. you are watching msnbc. and another member of president trump's team is reportedly saying good-bye. according to multiple reports, keith schiller will be departing the white house. you know schiller, the official title is the director of oval office operations, but anybody

on the campaign trail or who knew president trump in new york city would recognize him as trump's right-hand man, his body guy. he worked on trump's security detail for almost 20 years and became a close friend and trusted confidante to the president and his family. when trump decided to fire former fbi director james comey, it was schiller who went to the bureau to deliver the letter himself. i need my panel to weigh in on this. rick tyler and mike rupe ka. they have this beautiful report, schiller believes kelly doesn't like trump personally and is serving as chief of staff predominantly out of a sense of duty to the country." my first reaction is, duh. >> duh. yeah, i didn't see that coming at all, that general kelly doesn't really like this guy, but he's only doing it for the country. >> but what does this mean inside the white house? schiller truly is a confidante to the president. the president feels so close to him. where trump can be trump. schiller knows how to decode trump.

now what's it going to look like? >> you know, rick and i were talking about this. keith has always been what we call the body man. he's -- they said in this story, first guy you saw in the morning, the last guy he saw before he went to bed. and there's so much of this presidency that you sense trump sometimes saying, boy, toto, this doesn't look like kansas anymore. and schiller was a way to make things the way they were when he was running a company instead of a country. and this is actually a big thing, because i don't know whether he's losing his best friend or like his nanny, you know. >> okay, a big thing, but in terms of order and code of conduct in the white house, is it a big win for kelly? if you don't have a guy like schiller, who can work the trump system, does this help what general kelly's trying to do? >> interesting to find out why he leaves and why kelly didn't use him as an ally, because he was close to trump. and i don't know his influence on him, whether he was a stabilizing force. but as we were talking about, he

is in every photo of trump during the campaign because he's the guy who's standing right next to him. and i remember when i went to trump tower myself with senator cruz, he was the guy who led us downstairs and brought us up and escorting us into his office. >> but kelly isn't allies, he's looking for order. kelly wants a set schedule, a closed oval office door. >> he can do all that. controlling the president that he's going to have a problem with. he's not been able to do that. >> keith schiller was general kelly before generally except he didn't have the authority that general kelly. he did a lot of that stuff. i do think he tried to keep him grounded. i believe that the general kelly/donald trump relationship is doomed. that bromance because -- >> it was never a bromance -- >> no. >> not a bromance but the more he hears kelly is managing him, the more kelly is moving towards the door. >> president trump and mitch

mcconnell. "wall street journal" said trump will face a tough time with congress as he enacts this fall agenda and i love this point. at one point in the article it's going through trump trying to banter with mitch mcconnell on the phone when this happened. you ready, mitch, the president said, when mr. mcconnell fell silent on the call. are you there? mr. mcconnell waited a beat and then responded, yes, mr. president. back to the bill. so, rick, yes. clearly, mitch mcconnell here is saying i'm going to wait this out. i'm going to let the president spin and spin and i'll also be here. >> he's not going to be seduced by the president. you can imagine how the conversation went. the president is trying to with mitch and he wanted to get back to business and by that short conversation it would appear th >> think about president trump's strategy here. he is piling on homework assignment afterhomework

assignment tax care, dreamers, debt ceiling. you name it. this narrative is growing. listen, watch conservative television hosts. they're saying congress isn't helping their president. this works for trump. >> it is set up to be a legislative collision, right. you can't get all these things done and effectively what is two weeks working time. and the problem is leadership. things get done through congress when someone acts as a leader. and someone can persuade the country because it is the country that actually persuades the congress. that's how it moves. and until that happens, nothing is going to happen. no one has political -- >> congress actually has 12 days in the month of september to do anything. we know nothing is going to happen. could this hurt, could this be a win for trump and a loss for mitch mcconnell. trump is not aligning with gop leadership. >> how long is the narrative sustainable that nothing that goes wrong is ever the president's fault. it's congress' fault. >> he sustained it for a long time. >> for 71 years it worked.

>> it's not sustainable in terms of his approval ratings now that he has become president of the united states. look at what he did over the weekend. all of a sudden it wasn't just north korea's fault. it was south korea's fault. and we didn't even get to this today. the word appeasement, the notion of appeasement for south korea is a slur for people who run countries other than this one. >> by the way, one thing i worry about. i don't think we're at war with north korea. it's not going to be war or appeasement or war or settling. there's lots of things the united states can do with vis-a-vis north korea. one is they could bring in tactical nukes and people don't want to hear that. start ramping up military activity, not war. that will force. look what putin has already said. we're overreacting. they don't want us there. that's their long-term goal. if we move there, that will force. what i worry about, stephanie, a way that he is because that

could, north korea could at any moment everything that the president is doing politically. >> this thing with north korea is a dumb, dangerous, playground stare down just with nukes. that's what's going on here. tough talk is not going to solve this and tweets aren't going to solve this. >> a playground stare down with nuclear weapons. think about that on your tuesday morning. don't choke on your coffee. coming up, rallies and marches are getting under way at the white house and at trump tower right here in new york city as the president is set to announce the end of the dreamers program. i'm going to make my bet here. i left my crystal ball at home.

so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open. so you can get business done. i expect a lifetime guarantee. and so should you. on struts, brakes, shocks. does he turn everything to gold? not everything. at midas we're always a touch better.

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the xfinity stream app. all your tv at home. the most on demand your entire dvr. top networks. and live sports on the go. included with xfinity tv. xfinity, the future of awesome. one last word before we go. actually, two words. great american. i want to take a minute to focus on one of the countless heroes from the harvey recovery. houston police officer norbert ramon the one on the right of your picture. put on desk duty as he fought stage 4 cancer. when the rain started falling, he responded and ended up joining houston's lake patrol. in all the lake patrol helped rescue 1,500 people from the floods. so, thank you, especially,

norbert ramon and those victims, our hearts go out to you. i'm stephanie ruhle and i'll see you at 11:00 with my friend ali velshi but now send you down to the district of columbia with hallie jackson. >> thank you very much for that. and thank you for joining us here because it is back to school week in washington and the homework that's starting already. the president ordering congress now to deal with dreamers because in one hour we're expecting to hear from attorney general jeff sessions who is set to announce the end of the obama-era program to protect people brought here as kids and give congress six months to fix it. one of the president's most high-profile and highly controversial immigration advisors will join us on this show in a couple of minutes as we talk about congress having to deal with plenty else besides daca. in the next 12 working days, that list includes preventing a government shutdown and approving billions of dollars to help harvey victims. right behind harvey, by the way, here comes irma.

just been upgraded to this monster category 5 hurricane with states of emergency declared already in the caribbean and florida. we have a lot happening on this tuesday. and we've got a lot of folks on the ground for our team coverage right now. i want to start with hans nichols over at the white house. everybody is watching attorney general jeff sessions coming out of the department of justice in 58 minutes from now. this is a big deal. >> all eyes are on attorney general sessions because the president himself does not seem to be that visible, hallie. the president twice on friday teased this announcement and it looks like the actual announcement on what they do for childhood arrivals for these so-called dreamers will come from the justice department. essentially what we think we have is the president deferring action himself. deferring action to congress. this is a president who had fights with congress and picked fights with his own party and, yet, again, looking like he's putting the onus on